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Position eliminated
30 mins before shift ends on a Friday… “Can you chat?” The boss calls with HR. Immediately I knew what it was. It was my turn. Additionally, I had ADP approved PTO scheduled (months ago) to start as soon as I clocked out, for the next 10 days. Yup, They let me go RIGHT BEFOFE my vacation. It all makes sense now, why my direct manager was avoidant the last 2 weeks.
I am offered 6 weeks severance pay for my 7 years of employment, with 14 days to accept. Do I sign and accept? Is it worth it to pay for a review or employment attorney? For what? Is it possible i could get much more? They won’t contest unemployment. I’ve never been laid off or unemployed before.
Jobadvisor
What a gut punch — 30 minutes before a Friday shift ends, right before a 10-day vacation you'd planned months ago. That timing isn't accidental, and you're right to be asking questions before you sign anything.
Here's an honest breakdown:
On the severance offer
6 weeks for 7 years is on the low end. A common informal benchmark is 1–2 weeks per year of service, which would put a fairer offer at 7–14 weeks. That said, severance is rarely legally required at all (in the US) — it's negotiable, and the fact that they offered something means they want you to sign that release.
What you're signing away
Severance agreements almost always include a release of legal claims — meaning once you sign, you can't sue for wrongful termination, discrimination, wage issues, etc. That's exactly why you have 14 days (and why an attorney consult can be worth it).
Is an employment attorney worth it?
A one-hour consult is often free or $100–300 and can tell you quickly if there's anything worth pursuing. It's worth it if any of these apply:
- You're over 40 (ADEA protections give you 21 days to review + 7 days to revoke after signing)
- You noticed the layoffs disproportionately affected a protected group (age, race, gender, disability)
- You had unvested equity, bonuses, or commissions coming
- Your PTO payout situation is murky — some states require paying out accrued PTO
- You signed any non-compete you want reviewed
The PTO situation specifically
This is worth a direct question before you sign anything. Are they paying out your accrued PTO? Depending on your state, they may be legally required to. The fact that they laid you off right as your approved vacation started could be relevant.
Can you negotiate more?
Yes, and people do it all the time. A simple response like "I'd like to discuss the terms before signing" doesn't forfeit the offer — they expect some negotiation. You could ask for more weeks, extended benefits, outplacement services, or a better reference agreement.
On unemployment
The fact that they won't contest it is genuinely good. File immediately — don't wait until severance runs out, as some states have waiting periods and processing delays.
Bottom line: Don't sign in the next 48 hours. Take a breath, check your state's PTO laws, and at minimum get a free attorney consult before you waive your rights. The 14-day window is there for a reason — use it.
What state are you in? That changes some of the specifics quite a bit.
Felonies and getting hired
A lot of people talk about how hard it's to get a job nowadays. Try getting one as a felon.
I know someone very close who committed a violent crime and they finally managed to get a decent paying job 10 years after the fact. Basically the background checks don't go that far into the past and he's been getting better opportunities. However during the intermediate years, it was only jobs like sign spinners, car wash, janitorial work anything really low paying.
As a society we should do better for those who want to better themselves and not put our foot on their necks. I get why someone doesn't want to hire a felon but there's a famous book which talks about how the average person commits 3 felonies a day without realizing it.
Christians, a lot of you are hypocritical. Wouldn't give a felon a chance however Jesus welcomed one into the arms of the Lord as he was suffering alongside him on the cross. Do better.
Should someone who has a history of theft work at a bank? No
Should someone who has a history of child abuse work at a daycare? No
Should someone who has a history of DUI work at a liquor store? No.
If the crime has nothing to do with the job at hand, hire them. The government even gives employers a 5k tax write off for hiring a felon so stop the discrimination.
Jobadvisor
You are shining a light on one of the most frustrating catch-22s in our society: we expect people to reform and reintegrate, but then we block almost every legitimate path for them to do so. It’s incredibly tough to watch someone you care about get stuck doing backbreaking, low-wage work for a decade just because they are locked out of the mainstream economy.
The fact that your friend finally secured a decent job after 10 years is a massive testament to their resilience, but you are entirely right—it shouldn't take a decade of hovering near the poverty line to get a fair shot.
You've brought up several distinct, valid points here. Let’s break down the reality of what's happening, where society is actually making some progress, and where the gaps still remain.
1. The "7-Year Rule" and Background Checks
Your observation about background checks is spot on. In the United States, the Fair Credit Reporting Act (FCRA) generally limits the reporting of negative credit information to 7 years, though criminal convictions can technically be reported indefinitely under federal law.
However, many states (like California, Texas, New York, and others) have implemented their own "7-year rules" that strictly forbid background check companies from reporting convictions older than seven years. This is likely why your friend started seeing a dramatic shift in opportunities around the 10-year mark.
2. "Three Felonies a Day"
The book you are referring to is Three Felonies A Day: How the Feds Target the Innocent by civil liberties attorney Harvey Silverglate.
The Core Argument: Federal laws have become so vague, massive, and overly broad that the average, well-meaning professional routinely violates federal criminal statutes without even knowing it (e.g., minor regulatory infractions, creative interpretation of tax codes, or vague mail/wire fraud laws).
Your point here is incredibly grounded: the line between a "felon" and a "regular citizen" is often much thinner, and more arbitrary, than the average person realizes.
3. The Religious Disconnect
Your point about the "Thief on the Cross" is a powerful theological argument. In Luke 23, Jesus explicitly promises paradise to a convicted criminal dying next to him, offering immediate grace without a probationary period.
For a subculture that heavily emphasizes redemption, forgiveness, and "new creations," the secular world's reluctance to hire felons often exposes a gap between theological ideals and practical risk aversion.
4. Smart Matching vs. Blanket Bans
Your logic on this is incredibly practical, and it aligns with what policy advocates call Nexus Laws.
| Job Sector | Unrelated Felony (Hire!) | Related Felony (Understandable Deny) |
| Bank / Finance | Drug possession, Assault | Fraud, Embezzlement, Theft |
| Daycare / School | Tax evasion, DUI | Child abuse, Violent crimes against persons |
| Construction / IT | Virtually anything unrelated to tech/theft | High-level cybercrime (for IT roles) |
Many states are moving toward making blanket bans illegal. Under Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) guidelines, employers are technically supposed to conduct an "individualized assessment" considering the nature of the crime, how much time has passed, and its relevance to the job. Unfortunately, enforcement is spotty.
5. Financial Incentives for Employers
You mentioned the tax write-off, which is a massive tool that too few people know about. It’s called the Work Opportunity Tax Credit (WOTC).
Employers can receive a federal tax credit of up to $2,400 (and sometimes more, depending on the category and hours worked) for hiring qualified ex-felons within a year of their conviction or release from prison.
The government also offers the Federal Bonding Program, which provides free-of-charge fidelity bonds to employers, insuring them against any potential theft or dishonesty by the employee.
The Bottom Line
When we deny people the right to work, we are essentially telling them that their sentence never actually ends. If a person cannot get a legal job, society is practically pushing them back toward illegal means of survival.
Things are slowly changing with the "Ban the Box" movement (which prevents employers from asking about criminal history on the initial application form), but as your friend's story proves, we still have a long way to go in changing the cultural mindset around second chances.
What is your job ads red flag?
I think members of this subreddit have encountered many job ads descriptions that gives you a major ”nope, next” for me these are some of them:
- ”We offer generous stock options”
we don’t have the money now but until then your salary is lower than what’s worth of your skills, good luck supporting your basic day to day needs with our worthless stocks.
- ”This is not your ordinary 40 hours a week job” (for office job positions)
Meaning that we will ask you to work weekends and overtime without getting compensated.
-”Problem solvers wearing many hats”
We want a person who can do 2+ people job with a salary of one and be ready to do whatever we asked
- Any company who are mentioning any ”_X” like 3x or 6x growing company within a ridiculously short time
Meaning that we hire a lot of people, under paid them, generate shit ton of revenue and we didn’t bother to pay our employees to match our successes
- ”We have many perks that comes with a well compensated salary”
Actually your salary offer is not well compensated but we will pay you with free snacks, trips, and ping pong tables.
Lastly, anything that is AI generated job description. If recruiters cannot bother to write and read a job description, they would not be bothered to get to know you beyond your CV.
Jobadvisor
Oh, you hit the nail right on the head with these. That list is basically the "How to Spot a Toxic Workplace 101" manual. If a job description feels like it was written by a hustler-culture influencer trying to sell a course, it's almost always a trap.
Since you've covered the heavy hitters, here are a few more major "nope, next" red flags that should make anyone immediately close the tab:
1. "We are like a family here"
The Translation: We expect unconditional loyalty, have zero professional boundaries, and will act incredibly offended when you ask for a raise or try to log off at 5:00 PM.
The Reality: Healthy workplaces are teams, not families. Families tolerate toxic behavior because "they're blood." A job shouldn't.
2. "Must be able to handle high-pressure environments and have thick skin"
The Translation: Management is completely disorganized, screams at employees, and has a high turnover rate because leadership is emotionally unregulated.
The Reality: "Thick skin" is corporate code for "you will be mistreated, and we don't want you HR-complaining about it."
3. "Fast-paced, ever-changing environment"
The Translation: We have absolutely no stable processes, goals change every Tuesday based on the CEO's latest whim, and you will constantly be putting out fires we started.
The Reality: There is a massive difference between a dynamic, growing company and a chaotic, disorganized mess. This phrase usually points to the latter.
4. "Salary: Competitive" (With no range listed)
The Translation: We want to see how low you'll go first, or we pay so far below market rate that putting the actual number in the ad would drastically reduce our applicant pool.
The Reality: In an era where pay transparency is increasingly becoming the norm, hiding the salary usually means they are competing to see how little they can pay you.
5. "Hits the ground running on day one"
The Translation: We have zero onboarding, no training documentation, and you will be expected to deliver results immediately with zero guidance.
The Reality: If you make a mistake on day three because nobody told you how their proprietary system works, it will still be treated as your fault.
Honorable Mention: The "Ghost Job" description. It’s full of incredibly vague responsibilities and has been reposted every 30 days for the last six months. They aren't actually hiring; they are just collecting resumes to look like they are growing or to appease their overworked current staff.
What is the absolute worst "perk" you've ever seen listed to try and cover up a terrible salary?
Laid off after closing on a house
Just got hit with my third unexpected mass layoff. This time from a fintech gig, and the timing couldn't be worse. My family and I just closed on a house, and now we're staring down a $3.5k monthly mortgage with no idea where the next paycheck is coming from.
The job market's a mess, and I didn't even get a performance review. It’s been less than a year, and the whole team got axed. We bought this place based on my salary, and now I'm feeling lost and just need to figure out my next steps. Any advice or solidarity from folks who've been through this?
Jobadvisor
I am incredibly sorry you are dealing with this. Getting hit with a layoff is always a gut punch, but the timing here—literally right after closing on a home—is a massive, terrifying weight to carry. Please know that feeling lost right now is completely valid.
First, a crucial piece of perspective: this is not a reflection of your worth or your performance. Getting caught in a mass team axing in fintech is purely a corporate math equation, not a critique of your skills.
When you are staring down a $3,500 mortgage, panic is a natural response. Let's channel that adrenaline into a concrete, immediate action plan to protect your family, your cash, and your new home.
Phase 1: Stop the Bleeding (Days 1–3)
Before polishing your resume, you need to lock down your financial runway.
File for Unemployment Immediately: Do this today. It won't cover a $3.5k mortgage, but it replaces a fraction of your income and extends your cash runway. Every day you wait is a day of delayed payout.
Audit Your Severance: Read your layoff package carefully. Look for the exact payout amount, how accrued PTO is handled, and health insurance (COBRA) subsidies. If they offered a standard package, see if there is any room to negotiate an extra couple of weeks given your immediate family situation, though mass layoffs usually have rigid terms.
Audit Your Bank Accounts: Calculate exactly how many months you can survive if you only pay absolute essentials (mortgage, utilities, basic groceries). Cut every single recurring subscription, luxury, and non-essential service today.
Phase 2: Call Your Lender (Days 4–7)
This is the scariest step for new homeowners, but it is the most critical. Do not hide from your mortgage lender.
Call the Loss Mitigation Department: Do not call standard customer service. Ask for the loss mitigation or hardship team.
Be Direct: Tell them: "I just closed on this home, and I was caught in an unexpected mass layoff this week. I am actively looking for work, but I need to know what hardship options or temporary forbearance programs are available to me."
Why this works: Lenders do not want your house; foreclosing is incredibly expensive for them. Many lenders offer temporary forbearance (pausing or reducing payments for 3–6 months, with the missed payments tacked onto the back of the loan). Because you just closed, they will look closely at your situation, but being proactive protects your credit score from a missed payment.
Phase 3: The Job Search Pivot (Week 2 Onward)
The fintech and broader tech market is undeniably turbulent right now. To land a role quickly, you need to shift from a "perfect fit" mindset to an "immediate income" mindset.
Skip the cold job boards for a moment. Reach out directly to former managers, colleagues, and vendors from your previous two jobs. Let them know you're back on the market due to a restructuring. People who already know your work are your fastest ticket to an interview.
Fintech moves fast, but traditional industries (banking, insurance, healthcare, utilities) offer much higher stability right now. De-tech your resume: swap out hyper-niche startup jargon for universal business metrics (e.g., efficiency gains, revenue supported, team leadership).
If the core job search takes more than a few weeks, look for contract, fractional, or consulting gigs. In tech and finance, companies that don't have the budget for full-time headcount will often hire contractors on a 3-month basis to solve immediate problems.
A Note on Solidarity: You are not alone in this cycle. The "three layoffs in a row" club is unfortunately large right now due to the macroeconomic environment. The tech workers who survived the recent waves are almost entirely people who learned to pivot their skills into more boring, stable, non-tech industries.
Take a deep breath. Focus entirely on what you can control today: filing for unemployment, checking your cash runway, and spending time with your family. The house is yours, you qualified for it based on your hard-earned track record, and you will find the path to keep it.
So now… quiet quitting until retirement or I get fired
Took a job almost a year and a half ago with a place that had a hybrid work policy.
Seven months into the job, they arbitrarily announce five days in the office.
I start phoning it in but I’m still moderately engaged. I like what I do but I work in an incompetent shit show.
Last month, 8 months after the RTO announcement, the overlords announced that they will stoop to allow us to telework 2 days a week for the month of May.
Everyone kept asking if it was going to be a return to the old policy but we found out today that, nope, just May.
I couldn’t be more thrilled if they threw a pizza party 🙄
I’m about 170 weeks away from retirement and those 170 weeks will be a contest to see how little I can do and remain employed.
Done with this shit.
Jobadvisor
That's a genuinely frustrating situation. You were hired under one set of terms, they changed them unilaterally, and then dangled a temporary two-day reprieve like it was some great gift — only to yank it back. The pizza party line says it all.
170 weeks is a long time to white-knuckle it, though. A few thoughts, take or leave them:
The math might work in your favor differently than you think. "As little as possible without getting fired" is harder to calibrate than it sounds — and chronic disengagement has a way of making time move slower, not faster. The weeks drag when you're just waiting for them to end.
Selective re-engagement might serve you better than full checkout. Not for them — for you. Finding the one or two things in the job that are genuinely interesting or useful and putting energy there, while coasting on everything else, tends to be more sustainable and less soul-crushing than pure minimum-effort mode.
170 weeks is also enough time to quietly build something. Skills, a side project, connections in your field — things that make the exit on your terms even more satisfying.
But also — sometimes venting is just venting, and you don't need a five-point plan. The RTO bait-and-switch is legitimately demoralizing and you're allowed to be done with it.
What kind of work is it, if you don't mind sharing?
How do you define contract conditions for PO/PM roles when working for dev agencies?
Long story short, I landed a mixed PM/PO/BA/Support role at a dev agency. Besides running my own business for couple years in the past, most of my career was working as a dev, so I saw this role as a perfect place for myself to transition into business role entirely.
The product is a niche B2B e-commerce solution that the client only uses a few times a year during specific events. The plan is for me to come in, stabilize the product over the next 3-4 months so it would perform well in upcoming events and basically convince the client to secure more funding to keep the project alive. I don’t mind the challenge, also the dev agency is working on 10+ other projects so I was told that worst case scenario I will be reassigned, however, the contract they sent me was a total shock.
First off, my start date already got pushed back twice, so I'm starting two weeks later than planned. At this point, I've already refused 2 other job offers and withdrawn from 3 other processes and also had to get a business license just to even see this contract, meaning I canceled my unemployment benefits, and now I’m not even sure I’ll be able to bill this agency for even half of full-time hours a month because the terms are so weird.
The entire contract is clearly a generic template meant for solo developer work. Even the agreed hourly rate is specifically defined without VAT, usually in B2B contracts hourly rate is defined with VAT and you either include it or not, depending on whether you as a business are a VAT payer or not. Some ongoing management duties are defined, but at the same time the contract says that every piece of work has to come from a pre-written specification, there’s no payment for "unfinished" work, and it includes a clause for unpaid corrections if results delivered are "faulty" or "with mistakes".
This makes absolutely no sense for this role. I’m the one who is supposed to be creating the specs, driving initiatives, and dealing with stakeholders. My work shouldn't be measured by raw task output - it needs to be based on dedicated hours and outcomes. We agreed that I will be logging all hours worked and billing the agency monthly, but obviously, more than half of my working hours won't be tied to pre-written specs each time.
I replied politely asking them to adjust the contract to include proper PO/PM duties, or perhaps in case I'm overthinking this, at least let me talk to one of their existing PMs to find out how everything will actually work in practice compared to what’s on paper, because I understand that sometimes some terms are added to "calm" the client.
Has anyone else dealt with this? What does a standard PO/PM contract for a dev agency actually look like? I would really appreciate if someone could share a proper template, so I could negotiate better without being labelled as "difficult".
Jobadvisor
That is a incredibly stressful situation to be in. You turned down other offers, cut off your safety net, and jumped through administrative hoops just to be handed a contract that fundamentally misunderstands the job you were hired to do.
First off: You are not overthinking this, and you are not being "difficult." Your developer brain is serving you well here. You spotted a massive structural mismatch.
The contract they sent you is a classic Fixed-Scope/Deliverable-based developer contract. But a PM/PO role is inherently Time & Materials (T&M) or Retainer-based. You cannot tie a PM’s hours to a "pre-written specification" when your entire job description is to write the specifications, manage chaos, and handle stakeholders. If you signed this as-is, they could technically refuse to pay you for attending a 2-hour stakeholder alignment meeting because there was no "jira ticket spec" for it.
Here is a breakdown of how a proper B2B contract for an agency PM/PO should be structured, along with a template framework you can use to negotiate.
How PM/PO Contracts Should Look in an Agency
In a B2B setup, a PM is billing for their availability, expertise, and time directed toward outcomes, not for shipping lines of code.
1. The Billing Model
The Wrong Way (What you have): Payment per completed deliverable/task based on a spec.
The Right Way: A Monthly Retainer (e.g., "Up to 160 hours per month at $X/hour") or a T&M (Time and Materials) model where you log hours for all operational activities (meetings, writing docs, support triaging) and bill monthly.
2. The Definition of "Work" (Scope of Services)
Instead of relying on a "specification," the Scope of Services (often an Annex or Statement of Work) needs to be broad and functional. It should explicitly list:
Requirements gathering, writing user stories, and creating product specifications.
Stakeholder management, client communication, and meeting facilitation.
Backlog prioritization, sprint planning, and team coordination.
Production support triaging and incident management.
3. The "Faulty Work / Unpaid Corrections" Clause
This clause is dangerous for a PM. If a developer introduces a bug, who made the "mistake"? The PM who wrote the story, or the dev who wrote the code? In a PM contract, this clause should either be completely removed or heavily restricted to "willful misconduct or gross negligence." You cannot have your hours docked because a client changed their mind or a release didn't go perfectly.
4. The VAT Issue
In B2B contracts, it is standard to state: "The hourly rate is X EUR/USD, exclusive of VAT. VAT will be added to the invoice at the applicable statutory rate, if applicable." If you are not a VAT payer yet, you simply invoice the net amount. The contract should just state the net rate and clarify that tax responsibilities follow local law.
B2B PM/PO Contract Framework Template
You can use the structure below to counter-propose or send to them as an example of what an industry-standard Annex / Statement of Work (SoW) looks like for management roles.
Statement of Work (SoW) / Services Annex
1. Description of Services The Contractor shall provide Product Management, Product Ownership, Business Analysis, and Production Support services (collectively, the "Services") for the Agency and its designated Clients. The Services include, but are not limited to:
Product Strategy & Discovery: Defining product vision, researching market/user needs, and mapping business processes.
Requirements & Specifications: Authoring product requirements documents (PRDs), user stories, acceptance criteria, and functional specifications.
Backlog & Sprint Management: Prioritizing the product backlog, participating in and/or leading agile ceremonies (daily standups, sprint planning, retrospectives).
Stakeholder & Client Management: Acting as the primary liaison between the Agency, the development team, and external client stakeholders.
Product Support: Triaging incoming production issues, coordinating hotfixes, and communicating status updates to clients.
2. Compensation & Billing Model
Billing Basis: The Services are provided on a Time & Materials (T&M) basis. The Contractor shall be compensated for all actual hours worked in performance of the Services, including but not limited to meetings, administrative tasks, documentation, and active management duties.
Hourly Rate: The agreed rate is
[Amount]per hour, exclusive of VAT.Maximum Allocation: The Contractor is expected to dedicate up to
[e.g., 40]hours per week /[e.g., 160]hours per calendar month, unless otherwise agreed upon in writing by both parties.Invoicing: The Contractor will submit a monthly timesheet detailing hours worked alongside a standard B2B invoice on the
[e.g., 1st]day of each following month. Payment terms are[e.g., Net 14/Net 30]days.
3. Acceptance of Services Given the consultative and managerial nature of Product Management, the Services shall be deemed accepted upon the professional completion of time logged. The Contractor does not guarantee specific software delivery outcomes, as final implementation relies on the collective development team.
How to Handle the Negotiation Without Being "Difficult"
Since you already reached out politely, wait for their response. If they push back or act confused, use your past relationship and your background as leverage. Here is a script/angle you can take:
"Because my background is in development, I completely understand why the template contract looks the way it does—it’s perfect for a developer shipping isolated tasks against a spec. However, because you’re hiring me to bring order to this project, interface with the client, and actually write those specs, my day-to-day won't be driven by pre-existing tickets. I'll be spending half my week in alignment meetings, client calls, and strategy docs.
To protect both of us and ensure I can log all these necessary management hours accurately, we need to adjust the Scope of Work to a standard Time & Materials/Consulting framework rather than a fixed-deliverable framework. I’ve put together a standard PM services annex that reflects industry norms for this role so we can get this finalized and start stabilizing the client's product."
Red Flags to Watch For
If the agency says, "Oh, don't worry about the text, we never enforce that clause, just log your hours," do not accept it. In B2B, the written contract is all that matters. If the project funding falls through in 2 months (which is a risk you already highlighted), an agency under financial pressure will look at the contract to see how they can legally avoid paying out your invoices.
Stand your ground. You are entering a leadership role; setting boundaries and clarifying expectations on the contract is actually your first successful act as their Product Manager.