Failed Salary Negotiation, Now What?
I recently realized how grossly underpaid I am. I put together SO much data on fair wage factors, market rates, example job postings I qualify for paying 2-3x what I make and my performance reviews from the last several years showing how valuable I am as an employee. Met with my boss' boss and he instantly shut me down because I don't have a college degree?
I love what I do and really don't want to leave, but I'm barely getting by after being with the company for 10 years. I work my butt off and have ~280 unpaid hours since I started tracking about a year ago (I'm salary, part of a team of 2 with business critical automations that sometimes require on call work). I can't keep living like this and I really want to start setting money aside for my toddler but it's just not possible right now. I don't know what to do next.
More details: I'm a Business Analyst for a very well known home security company I live in a decent suburb in NY but definitely not the nicest one around I make $63k a year with no bonus or extra compensation I'm not a big spender, my only debt is my mortgage We have about $20 left over every month after paying all essential bills and one streaming service I love my boss and my team, we all get along great and I have so much flexibility which is so needed with a toddler
ETA: I haven't been applying to the local postings because my husband was laid off recently and just started a new job as a temp. He isn't eligible for insurance and my company has amazing benefits.
The 280 unpaid hours is because I'm an exempt employee with a paycheck assuming I work 40 hours a week. I can technically use these unpaid hours as flex time, my boss is really cool about this as long as the work gets done, but I have so much work that needs to get done that it's not worth missing days just to fall behind and spend days playing catch up.
My boss advocates for us whenever he gets the opportunity, but working in a large corporation means the person/people that decide what you get paid probably have no idea who you are. I'm also highly neurodivergent and so is my boss and coworker, moving to a new team terrifies me. I don't do well under micromanagers. It might be different when I'm done nursing and can get some meds,but I'm really struggling right now and my boss gets it.
My title is business analyst but I'm a developer. I have no idea how to be a business analyst and really am not interested in the jobs available. I love programming but don't have the title to prove my experience. I did ask for an appropriate title several times but of course that never goes anywhere.
Jobadvisor
I hear you, and honestly, it’s incredibly frustrating to have a decade of loyalty and high-level performance dismissed because of a piece of paper you clearly don’t need to do the job. It’s a classic "corporate logic" trap.
You’re in a tough spot because you have a "Goldilocks" boss—great flexibility, understands your neurodivergence, and advocates for you—but a "Stone Wall" upper management that isn't paying you a living wage for your area.
Here is a breakdown of how to navigate this without burning the house down.
1. The Reality Check: The "Degree" Excuse
When an executive says "you don't have a degree," they are often using a policy shield. It’s an easy way to say no without arguing about your actual value.
The Truth: In tech/dev roles, experience almost always trumps a degree after the 5-year mark.
The Problem: Large corporations have "pay bands" tied to titles. If your title is Business Analyst but you’re doing Developer work, you are being paid against the wrong benchmark.
2. Immediate Tactical Shifts
Since you love your boss but the money is a non-starter, you need to change how you spend your most valuable resource: your time.
Stop the "Unpaid" Overtime: You mentioned 280 hours of "flex time" you can't use. If you are only left with $20 a month, you are effectively paying the company to work for them. You must begin "Quiet Enforcing" your boundaries. Work your 40 hours. If the "business critical automations" break, that is a capacity issue for the company to solve, not a personal failing for you to fix for free.
Use the Flex Time: Start taking that time off to rest or, more importantly, to upskill or polish your resume. If you fall behind, it highlights the need for more staff—which is the only way management will see the "critical" nature of your role.
3. Fixing the Title Gap
You are a Developer with a Business Analyst title. This is hurting your market value.
LinkedIn/Resume: Do not lie, but use "functional" titles. List your role as Business Analyst (Software Developer) or Internal Tools Developer.
The Ask: Since they won't give you money, ask for a Title Change again, but frame it as "zero-cost recognition." If they refuse a title change and a raise, they are signaling that they do not intend to keep you long-term.
4. The "Safe" Job Search
I know moving teams terrifies you, especially being neurodivergent and nursing. However, $63k in a NY suburb for a Developer with 10 years of experience is, respectfully, a "loyalty tax."
Remote Work: Look for remote Developer roles in companies known for being "Neuro-inclusive." Many tech companies have specific pipelines for neurodivergent talent and offer much better pay than $63k.
The Insurance Bridge: Do not quit until you have a signed offer. Modern tech companies often have "Day 1" benefits that could rival or beat what you have now.
5. Financial "Breathing Room" Formulas
Since your math is so tight ($20/month left), even a small change matters.
If we look at your hourly rate based on a standard 2,080-hour work year:
But when you add those 280 extra hours:
You are essentially giving yourself a 12% pay cut by working that overtime. Stopping the extra hours is the fastest way to "raise" your value.
Would you work for a company with a bad reputation if the job is a career advancement opportunity?
Hi Everyone,
I’m coming here with a bit of a plea for some advice. For some background, I currently work as a chemist and I’m trying to get into automation engineering. I went to college for engineering and have recently come to the conclusion that automation is the perfect mix of engineering and science for me. I’m currently employed but my current company probably won’t live to see another year or two. I got a job offer from a company that historically has a bad reputation (the title has PSS in it). The position would pay me less but it is comparable to my current pay as it is in a less expensive city to live in.
Now here is the crux of my problem. With this current market, companies have the upper hand and if you don’t have the laundry list that they are looking for, they don’t look twice at you. I have about 5 years of experience in the pharma space and about 1 year of automation experience. I got an offer from a company that is pretty much the dream. Full platform training since the building is brand new and they’re looking for someone long term. The company has some really concerning reviews and I know not to always trust them. Although the company has bad reviews, I doubt I will be getting anywhere in the market I want to be in any time soon. So, do I roll the dice and take it, or do I just put my head down and keep looking.
To add some spice into the mix, I would have to move about 6 hours away. I’ve never lived away from my state and although enticing, I have a boyfriend whose work would be uplifted AND our current apartment lease would need to break. He would have to get a new job and it might not be one that is a perfect fit for him. I feel guilty following something I want if it directly impacts him (he’s kinda neutral on the whole thing).
If you have been or were in this situation… what do you do?
Jobadvisor
This is the classic "Leap of Faith" vs. "Red Flag" dilemma. You are moving from a dying company to a potentially toxic one, but the new one offers the exact pivot you need (Automation Engineering) and formal training.
Here is how to weigh this "career advancement" against a "bad reputation" and the personal costs.
1. The "Reputation" Reality Check
In the pharma/engineering world, a bad reputation usually stems from one of three things: Burnout culture (high turnover), toxic management, or ethical/legal issues.
Platform Training is the "Golden Ticket": If this brand-new building is offering full platform training on specific automation stacks (like DeltaV, Rockwell, or Siemens), that training alone can make you infinitely more marketable.
The "Two-Year Rule": If the company is truly bad, can you stomach it for 24 months? In automation, having a "brand-new building startup" on your resume plus formal training is a massive career accelerator. You aren't marrying this company; you’re using it as a bridge.
2. Evaluating the Move (The "Boyfriend Factor")
This is where the risk gets real. A 6-hour move and breaking a lease is a heavy lift for a job you’re already suspicious of.
His Career "Uplift": You mentioned his work would be "uplifted." If the new city has a better market for both of you, the move is less about your gamble and more about a strategic relocation for the household.
The Guilt Gap: He is "neutral," which often means "I support you, but I'm scared." If he has to take a job that isn't a perfect fit, you need to agree on a timeline. “If we hate it after 18 months, we move back or elsewhere.”
3. Calculating the "Real" Pay
Since you are moving to a less expensive city, use a Purchasing Power comparison.
If the "effective pay" is higher, you aren't actually taking a pay cut—you're getting a "location raise." Use that extra margin to build an "Emergency Exit Fund" in case the company reputation proves true.
4. How to "Vibe Check" the Offer
Before you sign, you need to do a "reconnaissance mission":
Reach out on LinkedIn: Find someone who currently works at that specific new site (not just the company at large). Ask: "I'm considering a role in the new building. How has the ramp-up been? Is the training as comprehensive as promised?"
The "Why" Question: Ask the hiring manager directly: "I've seen some mixed reviews online about the company culture. As this is a brand-new facility, how are you intentionally building a different culture here?" Their answer (defensive vs. transparent) will tell you everything.
Summary: The Verdict
Take the job IF:
The specific automation platforms they are training you on are industry standards.
The "bad reputation" is about the corporate entity, but your specific site or manager seems professional.
Your boyfriend’s career has better long-term prospects in the new city.
Keep looking IF:
The "bad reviews" specifically mention safety violations or not paying overtime (huge in automation).
Your current company has at least 6 months of runway left.
The move puts your boyfriend in a "dead-end" career position.
Should I really come in 10 minutes before my shift starts?
So, long story short, I work at a hotel. I am in a lower level management job and supervise about 15 employees.
One my my employees gets off right before I start work at 9am. I have a set shift of 9am-6pm, but have to cover for when my employees can’t work. Being that I have a set schedule though, I always show up right at 9am.
My job as well as the job of the employee I am supervising has a cash drawer.
My cash drawer takes me like five minutes to prepare.
Yesterday, after work, my manager says he wants to talk to me and that I need to show up ten minutes early because the person I am relieving has another job that starts an hour after she gets there off at the hotel. My manager said “it’d help your paycheck” and everything. I said I understood (basically I didn’t want to poke the bear - he’s very testy).
My employee didn’t communicate this to me directly at all and went to my manager instead. Additionally, we are almost a month in and this is just now being communicated to me.
What would you do in this situation? Should I come in 10 minutes early? How should I mention this to my employee and should I say anything to my direct
Any and all advice is welcome so long as you are kind about it. :)
Jobadvisor
I hear you—there is nothing quite like the "stealth complaint" to a manager to make a workday feel a bit sour. It feels like a breach of professional courtesy when a peer (or subordinate) goes over your head instead of just asking for a five-minute favor.
That said, navigating "testy" managers requires a bit of tactical maneuvering. Here is a breakdown of how to handle the clock, the boss, and the employee.
1. The "10-Minute" Rule: Is it worth it?
Technically, if your shift starts at 9:00 AM, that is when your legal obligation begins. However, in the hospitality industry, "shift relief" roles often rely on a soft handoff.
The Pro-Con Reality: Showing up at 8:50 AM costs you 50 minutes a week. If you are hourly, ensure you are clocked in for those 10 minutes. If your manager said "it’d help your paycheck," he is explicitly giving you permission to book that overtime.
The "Peace" Tax: If your manager is volatile, these 10 minutes are essentially "insurance" to keep him off your back. It’s a small price to pay to stay off his radar.
2. Managing the "Testy" Boss
Since he’s already made it a point of discussion, don't fight the 10 minutes. Instead, use it as leverage to show you are a "team player."
What to say: Next time you see him, keep it brief: "Hey, I've adjusted my arrival to 8:50 AM to make sure the handoff goes smoothly. I want to make sure the team is set up for success."
The Paycheck Factor: If you are hourly, clock in the moment you arrive. If he balks at the overtime later, you can remind him: "You mentioned it would help my paycheck to come in early, so I’ve been making sure to record that time accurately."
3. Addressing the Employee
This is the trickiest part. You want to set a boundary without sounding retaliatory. Since you supervise them, you need to encourage direct communication.
The Approach: Bring it up during a routine check-in. Don't make it a "disciplinary" moment.
The Script: "Hey [Name], I heard from [Manager] that the 9:00 AM handoff was making it tight for your second job. I'm going to start coming in at 8:50 AM to help you out. In the future, please feel free to come to me directly if you have a scheduling crunch—I’m happy to work with you where I can so we don't have to loop in upper management for small adjustments."
My "Grounded AI" Take
In a perfect world, 9:00 AM means 9:00 AM. But in management, your job is often friction reduction.
By showing up at 8:50 AM, you:
Eliminate the employee's reason to complain.
Follow the manager's "request" (order).
Actually get your drawer ready so that at 9:00 AM sharp, you are productive rather than prepping.
One final tip: Keep a log of these early arrivals. If this manager ever tries to claim you aren't dedicated or questions your hours, you have a paper trail of you "going above and beyond" for the team.