Can a company require an unpaid required training as part of paperwork, prior to hire? Would performing an unpaid required training technically allow the employee to claim an earlier start date?
I’m being asked to have a new employee onboard and am being asked for them to complete the kind of paperwork that I would normally expect an employee to do post-hire ahead of their start date. That also struck me as strange, but the thing that makes me extra uncomfortable (and looks terrible, I think, from a new hire perspective) is that I’m being asked to have this employee complete a few required training modules on cybersecurity on their free time before they start rather than during the day in their first few weeks. All other employees are encouraged to complete these trainings during work hours.
The employee is also trying to move and rent a new apartment in our area, and came back to me with an interesting question - in exchange for doing these required trainings unpaid, could they claim an earlier start date?
Apparently they’re having trouble renting with the start date being 2 months out but we’re asking them to complete the training by next month and they were told by a few private landlords that would help.
What do you all think? I think from the start we shouldn’t have required any unpaid trainings ahead of their start date, but I can see their logic in saying that they started “work” for the company that would normally be paid well before the start date.
Jobadvisor
This situation raises several legal and ethical concerns, particularly regarding unpaid work and the employee's official start date. Since I cannot provide legal advice, the following is for informational purposes based on typical labor laws (specifically US federal law, as an example, since specific jurisdiction is not mentioned, and this is a common labor law scenario). You should consult with an HR professional or legal counsel familiar with your specific jurisdiction's labor laws.
Here's an analysis of the two main parts of your question:
1. Can a company require an unpaid required training as part of paperwork, prior to hire?
Generally, if the training is required and benefits the employer, it must be paid time.
US Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA) Perspective: Under the FLSA, time spent in required training is usually considered "hours worked" and must be compensated, even if it occurs before the official "start date." The Department of Labor (DOL) uses a four-part test to determine if training time is not compensable:
Attendance is outside of the employee's regular working hours.
Attendance is voluntary.
The course, lecture, or meeting is not directly related to the employee's job.
The employee does not perform any productive work during attendance.
Analysis of Your Situation:
Required Training: You explicitly state the cybersecurity modules are required. This strongly suggests the time is compensable.
Directly Related to Job: Cybersecurity training is typically directly related to the duties of an employee in today's workplace and a benefit to the employer.
Conclusion on Pay: Because the training is required and directly job-related, the employee should generally be paid for the time spent completing these modules, regardless of when they are completed. Asking them to do this "on their free time" without pay before their official start date likely violates wage laws.
Paperwork: Standard onboarding paperwork (e.g., W-4, I-9 documents) completed at home prior to the first day of work is generally not considered work time and does not require compensation. However, a "required training module" is distinct from administrative paperwork.
2. Would performing an unpaid required training technically allow the employee to claim an earlier start date?
This is a complex issue that mixes legal realities with practical, administrative decisions.
Legal/Wage Perspective:
By requiring and receiving the benefit of the employee's labor (the training) on a certain date, the company has arguably established an employment relationship on that earlier date for the purposes of wage laws.
Even if the official start date on the offer letter remains the same, the company would owe the employee wages for the hours spent on training.
Administrative/Official Start Date Perspective:
The "official start date" for benefits eligibility, seniority, and payroll purposes is typically the date agreed upon in the offer letter.
However, the employee's request to move the official start date earlier in exchange for unpaid training is a possible solution to their apartment issue, but creates an administrative nightmare and a huge wage risk.
Risk: If you agree to an earlier start date to help with the rental but do not pay them for the training and do not officially start paying them a salary until the original date, you have not solved the wage violation problem and have now complicated the official employment record.
Recommended Course of Action
The most compliant and ethical path is to correct the compensation issue first, and then address the start date request:
Pay the Employee:
Do not require the training to be unpaid.
Ask the new hire to track the time they spend completing the mandatory cybersecurity modules.
Compensate them for those hours at an agreed-upon rate (e.g., their offer letter hourly equivalent) or a minimum wage, even if it's before the official salary start date. This ensures compliance with wage laws.
Address the Start Date Request:
Option A (Cleanest): Stick to the original agreed-upon start date. Explain that while the company appreciates their willingness to complete the training early, an earlier official start date cannot be granted for administrative reasons (e.g., benefits enrollment, payroll cycle). Crucially, assure them they will be paid for the time spent on training.
Option B (To help the employee): If the company can administratively handle an earlier start date for all purposes (payroll, benefits, etc.) without complications, and you genuinely want to help the new hire, you could amend the offer letter to an earlier date. However, this new earlier date must be the actual paid start date for all purposes. Do not link the earlier start date to unpaid training.
Summary for Your Situation:
The requirement for unpaid training is likely illegal (under US law) and should be corrected immediately by offering payment for the hours worked.
The employee's logic that they started "work" before the official start date is sound from a labor law perspective.
Consult with your company's HR and legal department to ensure compliance with your local and federal labor laws when rectifying this situation.
I need to a choose a degree after 10 years of serving tables
I quit college a little beyond halfway through due to the insane cost and debt I was in (20k).
I now have an opportunity to finish my degree, but I cannot decide on anything. I’ve served for ten years, and it’s paid my bills and I’ve done well for myself considering the job. But I need to move on to something with benefits so I can have a nest egg for retirement.
I’ve always been a good student but I haven’t been in college for ten years. I multi-task well, I prefer an active job, but ideally I don’t want to do any sort of customer service.
I’d like a degree that I can get a job immediately, that pays well, so I don’t have to fall back on serving.
Any suggestions? 🙏
Jobadvisor
That is a very understandable position to be in. Congratulations on making the decision to move forward—your decade of experience in a demanding service role has given you highly valuable transferable skills, such as multitasking, problem-solving, time management, and performance under pressure. You don't want to lose the active nature of the job, but you need a secure career with benefits and no direct customer service.
Here are three degree suggestions that leverage your skills, offer strong job prospects, pay well, and meet your requirement for an active, non-customer-facing role.
1. Information Technology (IT) / Cybersecurity
This is a field with high demand, excellent pay, and roles that focus on systematic problem-solving rather than client interaction.
Degree Focus: Computer Science, Information Technology, or Cybersecurity.
Why it Fits You:
High Pay & Benefits: IT and cybersecurity are consistently among the highest-paid sectors with strong benefits and job stability.
Non-Customer Service: Many roles, such as Information Security Analyst or Network Engineer, involve working with systems, data, and internal teams, not the public.
Active: The nature of the work is mentally active, requiring constant learning and quick reaction to technical issues, which aligns with your well-developed multitasking and problem-solving skills from serving.
Fast-Track Potential: While a Bachelor's is ideal, you can often enter the field quickly by completing a technical certification (like CompTIA Security+ or Google IT Support Professional Certificate) and an Associate's Degree to start an entry-level job while you complete your four-year degree.
2. Nursing (Registered Nurse - BSN)
This path is a frequent and successful transition for former servers because it perfectly uses your ability to be active, multitask, and manage stressful situations with composure.
Degree Focus: Bachelor of Science in Nursing (BSN).
Why it Fits You:
High Pay & Benefits: Registered Nurses (RNs) are in constant demand, offering excellent salaries, retirement benefits, and flexible scheduling options.
Active: Nursing is highly physically and mentally active—you are constantly on your feet, prioritizing multiple patient needs, and interacting with a team.
Non-Customer Service (In a sense): While you deal with patients, the relationship is clinical and task-focused, not customer-service oriented like a restaurant. You are an advocate and caregiver, which is a different mental space.
Fast-Track Potential: If you already have a Bachelor's in a different field, some institutions offer Accelerated BSN (ABSN) programs that can be completed in 12–18 months. If not, you can aim for an Associate Degree in Nursing (ADN) to start working faster, then complete your BSN while employed (which many hospitals help pay for).
3. Operations & Supply Chain Management
This field uses your organizational and logistical skills to optimize how a company works, moving materials, managing inventory, and streamlining processes.
Degree Focus: Supply Chain Management, Operations Management, or Business Administration with an Operations concentration.
Why it Fits You:
High Pay & Benefits: This is a core function for any business that produces or moves goods, making it a stable, high-value career.
Non-Customer Service: Your work will be primarily focused on internal logistics, data, vendors, and management, not direct public interaction.
Active: You will be actively managing complex, real-time processes, inventory, and logistics, which requires the kind of on-the-fly prioritization and attention to detail you mastered while serving.
Career Ladder: This degree opens doors to roles like Purchasing Manager, Logistics Analyst, or Inventory Manager.
Leveraging Your Server Skills in Your Application
No matter which degree you choose, be sure to highlight your transferable skills from serving tables. Your resume and interviews should focus on how your experience prepared you for a professional environment:
| Server Skill | Professional Application (Transferable Skill) |
| Juggling 8 tables, 5 drinks, and a kitchen order. | Exceptional Multitasking & Prioritization (Key to Project Management, Network Troubleshooting) |
| Handling an angry customer or a meal mistake. | Conflict Resolution & Emotional Intelligence (Key to Team Leadership, Process Improvement) |
| Memorizing daily specials, ingredients, and pairings. | Attention to Detail & Rapid Information Retention (Key to Data Analysis, Coding Accuracy) |
| Always being on your feet and managing a rush. | Stamina, Efficiency, and Performance Under Pressure (Key to Active and Deadline-Driven Roles) |
Some jobs are just more exhausting than others. You cannot time manage your way out of exhaustion
I come home after my 10 hour shift and just have to sit down for 2-3 hours to recuperate. I dont have time for anything in life. I dont have the energy to do anything.
Many people then claim that they work 40 hours+ or even 50 hours + and stil have time and energy to go to the gym or read or whatever. And that its just time management. Because there are 7-8 hours of time after work.
Why cant these people comprehend that some Jobs are just more physcially or mentally exhausting (or both) than others? Or that a vast majority of people still commute to work for 1-2 hours?
If I need 45 Minutes to get to work and have a 10 hour shift, then all time between 6 AM and 6 PM is occupied by getting ready or commuting or working or getting back from work.
That leaves me with just 4 hours of real free time before I have to go to bed to get 7-7.5 hours of sleep. And If I need 2-3 hours to recuperate, thats leaves almost 0 time after work.
And you try to have the energy to read or go to the gym or clean the apartment after working as a baggage handler at the airport. Or in a high stress level office.
If you work in retail or (fast) food or physically or in a high level stress office, your level of energy will be 1/3 or 1/4 of the people that have a relaxed job where they can slack off half of the time.
Thats why all the rich people can "work" over 100 hours a week, and poor people are drained despite having just a 30 hour part time job. Because some jobs are just relaxed and easy while others are stressful and hard.
And to blame people for "bad time management" when they have a job where they come home 5x more exhausted than the ones with a a low level stress job, is just another rich people blaming game.
Jobadvisor
I absolutely hear you, and you've hit on a truth that often gets lost in the conversation about work and life balance: not all hours, jobs, or commutes are created equal.
It is deeply frustrating to have people dismiss your very real exhaustion as a failure of "time management." That phrase often feels like a way to shift the blame onto the individual for a systemic issue, and it completely ignores the physical and mental demands of certain occupations.
Here is a breakdown of why the standard "40-hour work week + time management = free time" equation falls apart for people in demanding jobs like yours:
1. The Myth of the "Standard" Hour
You are completely right—one hour spent working as a baggage handler or a high-stress retail manager is fundamentally different from one hour spent at a low-stress, desk-based job where you have control over your pace.
Physical Exhaustion: Jobs like a baggage handler, construction worker, or nurse on their feet for 12 hours deplete your muscles and joints. This requires literal physical rest—sitting, lying down, or sleeping—not just a change of activity. Your need to sit for 2-3 hours isn't a luxury; it's a non-negotiable step in recovering from a physically demanding load.
Mental and Emotional Exhaustion (Cognitive Load): Jobs in fast food, high-stakes finance, customer service, or healthcare come with a massive cognitive and emotional load. You are constantly problem-solving, managing intense social interactions, dealing with demanding customers or clients, and working under tight deadlines. This kind of stress burns through mental energy (willpower, focus, emotional regulation) faster than almost anything else. After this, your brain needs that downtime to decompress and process.
In short, your energy level isn't about the quantity of hours you worked, but the quality of the demand those hours placed on your body and mind.
2. The Time-Suck of Commuting
You bring up a critical factor: the commute.
When someone says they work 40 hours and still have time, they often live close to work or work from home. When you add a 45-minute commute each way to a 10-hour shift, your day looks like this:
10 hours working
1.5 hours commuting (45 mins x 2)
1 hour getting ready/winding down (minimal estimate)
Total Work/Commute/Prep Time: 12.5 hours
If you are awake for 16-17 hours, that's nearly 75% of your waking life dedicated to your job and its logistics. When you factor in the 2-3 hours of necessary recovery time, you are left with maybe an hour or two for all other life tasks—eating, cleaning, socializing, paying bills, etc.
This isn't "bad time management." It's a mathematical reality. The "7-8 hours after work" only exists for people with zero commute and a less demanding job.
3. The Socioeconomic Blind Spot
You are right to call this a "rich people blaming game." When people with flexible, high-paying jobs—often those with more autonomy, the ability to delegate, and work that is intellectually stimulating rather than draining—look at someone working a physically or emotionally exhausting job, they often lack the frame of reference to understand the true cost of that work.
They confuse intellectual effort (which can be rewarding and energizing) with physical and emotional depletion (which is strictly taxing).
They don't have the same financial stress that can follow people home and add to the mental load, further preventing relaxation.
The concept of "time management" is only relevant once you have the energy to manage your time effectively. For someone coming home completely drained, the first priority is energy restoration, not optimizing a schedule.
Your feelings are valid. You are not failing at "time management"; you are a human being whose body and mind require necessary rest to recover from a significant daily load.