Is it just me, or is "loyalty" in the workplace just code for "please let us underpay you longer"?

I stayed at my last job for almost 4 years. I was praised for being “loyal,” always stepped up when needed, trained new hires, and even covered for managers at times. When I finally asked for a raise, I was told I needed to “prove my value more.” The new guy doing half my work? Started at a higher salary than me.

Left 3 months later. Got a new job with a 30% salary bump and zero guilt. No “loyalty,” just boundaries.

Why are we still selling loyalty in a system that rarely returns it? What’s your take—has workplace loyalty become a trap?

Jobadvisor:

It's definitely not just you. Your experience resonates with a lot of people, and you've hit on a really important point about the often-unequal exchange of "loyalty" in the workplace.

From your story, it sounds like "loyalty" was indeed used as a convenient reason to maintain the status quo, which in your case meant being underpaid despite your significant contributions. You poured your time and effort into the company, taking on extra responsibilities and demonstrating commitment, yet when it came time for them to reciprocate with fair compensation, the goalposts shifted. The fact that a new employee doing less work started at a higher salary speaks volumes and highlights the transactional nature many employment relationships have become.

The traditional idea of workplace loyalty, where employees were expected to stay with a company for decades and were often rewarded with security and advancement, feels increasingly outdated. The landscape of work has changed dramatically, with companies often prioritizing short-term gains and a more fluid workforce. In this environment, the expectation of unwavering loyalty from employees, without a reciprocal commitment to their growth and fair compensation, can easily become a trap.

Here's my take on why this dynamic persists and why "loyalty" can feel like a loaded term:

• Cost Savings for Employers: Encouraging "loyalty" can be a way for companies to retain experienced employees at lower salaries than the market rate. The cost of constantly hiring and training new staff is significant, so keeping someone who knows the ropes, even if underpaid, can seem financially advantageous in the short term.
• Exploitation of Dedication: Many employees take pride in their work and feel a sense of responsibility towards their team and the company's mission. Unscrupulous employers can exploit this dedication, expecting extra effort and patience without fair compensation, framing it as an act of loyalty.
• Lack of Transparency: Salary discrepancies, like the one you experienced, often remain hidden, making it difficult for employees to understand their market value and negotiate effectively. This lack of transparency benefits employers who can then underpay long-term staff.
• Shifting Power Dynamics: The decline of strong unions and the rise of a more competitive global market have shifted some of the power away from employees. This can make it harder for individuals to demand fair treatment and compensation based purely on tenure.
• The "Sunk Cost" Fallacy: Employees who have invested significant time in a company might feel hesitant to leave, even if they are unhappy or underpaid, due to the "sunk cost" fallacy – the idea that they should continue down a path because of the resources (time, effort) they've already invested, regardless of future prospects.

Your decision to leave and secure a 30% raise demonstrates a crucial shift in perspective: prioritizing your own value and well-being over a one-sided notion of loyalty. Setting boundaries and understanding your market worth are powerful tools in navigating the modern workplace.

While genuine mutual respect and a sense of belonging can foster a degree of loyalty in any relationship, including the employer-employee one, it needs to be a two-way street. Companies that truly value their employees understand this and demonstrate it through fair compensation, opportunities for growth, and a supportive work environment. When "loyalty" is solely expected from the employee without a clear return, it often becomes exactly what you described – a way to underpay and underappreciate valuable contributions.

Should I tell my boss I’m leaving because of my coworker?

I just accepted a new offer and had a call with my manager today, he really wanted me to stay and asked me to give him a list of what I need. He also said if it’s about money he could make it happen (unlikely because new place is paying me 80% more). The thing is, I’m sick of my coworker and I have been putting up with her for a year.

She talks down to me and undermines everything I do. She regularly jokes that she should give me more work because seems like I’m not stressed (she’s not my manager, I’m just good under pressure). She usually assumes the worst about people. The team has had a high turnover rate, I’m not sure about the others but I know for a fact the last person left because she bullied them (I still keep in touch with that coworker). She’s currently stressing out another new team member, and I’m leaving. That’s why my manager really wants me to stay. He doesn’t know the coworker is the real reason why I’m quitting. Should I tell him at all?

Some more info:

• Coworker has been there for years and has seniority.

• I’ve witnessed her cutting other people off in meetings and generally getting pretty aggressive, it’s possible that people have complained to our manager, but I’m not sure. Either way, she has been there for years, nothing has been done to change her behavior.

• I want to ask my manager to be my reference, so I don’t want to burn bridges.

Or should I just firmly decline any counteroffer without giving much details?

Jobadvisor:

This is a tough spot, and it sounds like you've been dealing with a really unpleasant situation. Given your desire for a reference and the history with your coworker, here's a breakdown of how you might approach this:

Should you tell your boss the real reason?

Maybe, but with careful consideration and framing. Here's a nuanced perspective:

• Potential Downsides of Being Direct: Directly stating your coworker is the reason you're leaving could put your manager in a difficult position, especially given the coworker's seniority. It might also sound like you're making demands he can't easily meet, potentially jeopardizing your chances of a good reference. He might feel defensive or like you're putting him on the spot to choose sides.
• Potential Upsides of Being Honest (Carefully Framed): If you frame it constructively, it could provide your manager with valuable insight into the team's dynamics and the reasons for the high turnover. This might be helpful for him in the long run. It also explains your strong stance on leaving, making a counteroffer less likely.

How to Approach the Conversation (If You Choose to Mention the Coworker):

Instead of a direct accusation, consider phrasing it in a way that focuses on your experience and needs:

• Focus on your well-being and the work environment: "While I appreciate the counteroffer, my decision to leave is based on more than just compensation. I've realized that I need a work environment where I feel more consistently supported and where the team dynamics are a better fit for my working style."
• Subtly hint at the coworker's impact: "Over the past year, I've found it challenging to navigate some of the interpersonal dynamics within the team, and it has unfortunately impacted my overall job satisfaction."
• If pressed, be factual and avoid emotional language: If your manager probes further, you could say something like, "There have been instances where I've felt undermined and spoken down to, which has made it difficult for me to thrive. I've also observed similar interactions with other team members."
• Emphasize your need for a different environment: "Ultimately, I've found a new opportunity that I believe will offer a more positive and growth-oriented environment for me."

Regarding the Counteroffer and Reference:

• Firmly but politely decline the counteroffer: Regardless of whether you mention the coworker, be firm in your decision. You can say something like, "Thank you so much for the offer, and I truly appreciate you wanting me to stay. However, I've made a commitment to the new company, and I'm excited about this next step in my career."
• Separate the resignation reason from the reference request: After firmly declining, shift the conversation to your reference. "I've really valued my time here and the opportunities I've been given. I was hoping that you would be comfortable serving as a reference for me in the future." This separates your reasons for leaving from your request and emphasizes the positive aspects of your time there.

Key Considerations:

• Your Manager's Personality: Consider how your manager typically reacts to difficult feedback. Is he open to hearing about team issues, or is he more likely to become defensive?
• Your Comfort Level: How comfortable are you discussing this sensitive issue? Don't feel pressured to reveal more than you're ready to.
• The Likelihood of Change: Given the coworker's long tenure and the fact that her behavior hasn't changed despite potential complaints, it's unlikely your manager will suddenly take drastic action based on your feedback alone.

In conclusion:

You don't have to explicitly say you're leaving because of your coworker to decline the counteroffer. Firmly declining while expressing gratitude for the opportunity is perfectly acceptable.

However, if you feel it's important for your manager to understand the real reasons behind the high turnover and your departure, you can choose to share some carefully framed feedback, focusing on your experience and the need for a different work environment.

Prioritize getting that reference by being professional and appreciative in your resignation. Good luck with your new job! It sounds like a much better environment awaits you.

Why people who are non serious always have success getting the job?

I’ve noticed a strange pattern lately: in many companies, especially in IT roles, there always seem to be a few individuals who are laidback, don’t take their job too seriously, and even spend time joking around with colleagues. Surprisingly, these are often the ones who perform well in interviews and land the job with ease.

What stands out is that these individuals—who are not in higher positions than me—can get their work done and still spend part of the day playing games or relaxing without any pushback from managers or colleagues. They are not serious in the teams meetings and sitting making bad jokes and laughing and killing the time we have setup for the projects.

And no I don’t personally find they enjoyable to be around with, sometimes they have arrogant attitudes and take to much places in an environment and come off narcissistic.

If I were to behave the same way, I’m certain I’d be perceived as unprofessional or not serious about my work. In fact, I’ve always felt like I have to work twice as hard just to be taken seriously, and even then, job opportunities don’t come easily.

Yet, for some reason, these individuals seem to have no trouble switching jobs and finding new opportunities within a week. It makes me wonder if there’s something beneath the surface that I’m missing—some unspoken factor or advantage that gives them this freedom and flexibility.

Jobadvisor:

It's understandable why you'd feel that way. It can be incredibly frustrating to see colleagues who appear less serious succeed, especially when you feel you're putting in significant effort and facing more hurdles. While it might seem counterintuitive, there are several potential underlying reasons why some seemingly "non-serious" individuals find success in landing jobs and navigating the workplace:

Possible Factors Contributing to Their Success:

• Strong Interpersonal Skills and Networking: Those who joke around and engage socially often build stronger rapport with colleagues and potential interviewers. Interviews aren't purely about technical skills; they also assess cultural fit and likability. People tend to hire individuals they connect with and believe will integrate well into the team. Their seemingly casual demeanor might actually be a sign of strong emotional intelligence and the ability to build relationships quickly.
• Confidence and Charisma: A relaxed and confident attitude can be very persuasive in an interview setting. They might come across as self-assured and capable, even if their technical skills are comparable to yours. This confidence can mask any underlying anxieties and project an image of competence.
• Effective Communication: Joking and storytelling can be a sign of good communication skills. They might be adept at explaining complex ideas simply and engagingly, both in interviews and during their work. This ability to communicate clearly and connect with others is highly valued.
• Stress Management and Resilience: Their ability to joke and relax at work might be a sign of effective stress management. They might be less prone to burnout and able to maintain a more positive outlook, which can be attractive to employers looking for resilient team members.
• Understanding the "Game": Some individuals are very astute at understanding workplace dynamics and what truly matters. They might prioritize key tasks and deliverables while appearing relaxed in other areas. They could be skilled at managing perceptions and knowing when and how to be "serious" when it counts.
• Networking and Connections: Their social nature likely extends beyond the immediate team. They might have a broader network of contacts who can provide leads and recommendations for new opportunities.
• The "Likeability" Factor: Human beings are naturally inclined to favor people they like. Even if their technical skills aren't superior, their pleasant demeanor can create a positive impression that outweighs other factors in hiring decisions and workplace dynamics.
• Perceived Creativity and Innovation: Sometimes, a less rigid approach can be associated with creativity and out-of-the-box thinking. Their willingness to be less formal might be interpreted as a sign of a more innovative mindset.
• Potentially Overcompensating: It's also possible that their seemingly laidback attitude is a way of masking insecurities or overcompensating for a lack of deep technical knowledge. However, if they consistently deliver results, this becomes less relevant to their success.

Why Your Experience Might Be Different:

• Perception of Seriousness vs. Rigidity: There's a fine line between being serious and being perceived as rigid or unapproachable. Your intense focus might inadvertently make you seem less collaborative or adaptable.
• Focus on Tasks vs. Relationships: While dedication to work is crucial, building relationships is equally important in most professional environments. If your primary focus is solely on tasks, you might miss opportunities to connect with colleagues and managers on a personal level.
• Communication Style: Your communication style might be perceived as less engaging or less confident compared to your seemingly laidback colleagues.
• Unspoken Biases: Unfortunately, unconscious biases can play a role in how individuals are perceived. Someone who fits a certain cultural norm or archetype might be given more leeway than someone who doesn't.
• The "Effort Paradox": Sometimes, appearing to work effortlessly can be more impressive than visibly struggling, even if the outcome is the same.

What You Can Consider:

• Reflect on Your Interview Style: Are you conveying confidence and likability in addition to your skills? Do you connect with the interviewer on a personal level?
• Observe Their Positive Traits: While their arrogance isn't something to emulate, try to identify the positive aspects of their behavior that might contribute to their success, such as their communication style or ability to build rapport.
• Focus on Building Relationships: Invest time in getting to know your colleagues and building genuine connections. Networking is crucial for career advancement.
• Communicate Your Achievements Effectively: Ensure your accomplishments are visible and understood by your managers and colleagues. Don't assume your hard work speaks for itself.
• Find a Balance: While maintaining professionalism is important, consider if there are opportunities to be more approachable and engage socially without compromising your work ethic.

It's important to remember that success is multifaceted. While it might seem like these individuals have an easy path, there could be underlying skills and strategies at play that you're not fully seeing. Focusing on developing a well-rounded professional approach that combines strong skills with effective communication and relationship-building will ultimately serve you well.